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multiboot system + Urban Terror
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Author:  dmmh [ 02.16.12 ]
Post subject:  Re: multiboot system + Urban Terror
natirips wrote:
dmmh wrote:
it shouldn't...it doesn't do anything to the hardware...
In windows source code there is a part that goes like this:
Code:
while(1)
{
  flicker_led(LED_HDD);
}

Are you sure it didn't do anything?

P.S.: I'm out of spare HDDs, sorry (unless you want me to send you a cca. 250MB PATA drive from early '90s [edit]it worked last time I used it[/edit]).


Lol.
Thnks for the offer man. But U guess 2MN won't work lol :-)

My BIOS doesn't even see the drive, so I guess it just was time for it to die.
Those SSD disks are looking mighty interesting now, when they fail, they fail in read only mode, do at least you can get your stuff.
But 2000 euro for a 500 GB HDD us a little out of my price range :-D
Author:  Crusher [ 02.17.12 ]
Post subject:  Re: multiboot system + Urban Terror
I still don't have enough confidence to buy these SSDs disks...
Author:  havoc [ 02.17.12 ]
Post subject:  Re: multiboot system + Urban Terror
Crusher wrote:
I still don't have enough confidence to buy these SSDs disks...


good only if you tend to kick your computer a lot
Author:  wurst [ 02.17.12 ]
Post subject:  Re: multiboot system + Urban Terror
dswp is running from ssd for 2 years now, i use sandforce 1000/2000 in many servers and clients.
no matter where, even in heavy database use: they fail less.
theres > 400 drives that went through mine hands @ work.
none of the sf1000 and a few early sf2000 failed.
when they fail, its due to new firmware most likely.
if u wanna go productive, choose the older sandforce 1000. (eg. ocz vertex2)
u can use them @ most raid controllers, be aware bottlenecks, even in ur chipset.
not every board eats 5GBsec.

ah:
what dmmh meant with that fail:
these disks have an internal raid5 called RAISE. its a nice idea since SSD always deal with a bigger amount of independend FLASH ic.
this raid5 provides redundancy, some reserved ECC space will replace an Error flawlessly.
When all ECC Space is used, the SSD goes to read only mode.
Reading will be possible for unlimited times since the FLASH memory is just getting hurt by writing.

what belongs to the price:
u pay more for the space but less for the performance.
1 ssd in a webserver can replace more then 10 fast disks.
When u say now: OK 50 GB is enough for my Web: Save money and power (2W vs. 10X 5-15W)

if u ask me:
replace teh os disk of any computer with such a disk.
can be small (like 40-50-60 GB).
use the old HDD for backup and mass storage.
Author:  natirips [ 02.17.12 ]
Post subject:  Re: multiboot system + Urban Terror
One question: why place OS on a fast disk and data on the slow one? I mean, OS gets loaded at startup after a minute or so and remains in memory. It's the data that I always find being so slow.
Author:  havoc [ 02.17.12 ]
Post subject:  Re: multiboot system + Urban Terror
wursti is server-biased :P
Author:  wurst [ 02.17.12 ]
Post subject:  Re: multiboot system + Urban Terror
hm, i meant the programs too.
its booting multiple times faster, every program loads faster.
its more reliable, less power consuming, more shock resistant, easier to erase.
but sure, i must give in: urban terror maps dont load significantly faster.
u wont be more sexy at all and ur porn wont look any better.


all computer parts went faster all the time, doubling in capacity and speed every 18 months.
at least all integrated circuits.
hard disks had a linear raise in size and speed, growing maybe 15% in the doubling time of the rest.

those mechanical monsters survived all times, failing that often that u can call them a "job creation instrument"
cause mass storage on them is cheap. 10 cent/GB is a word.
so its no wonder that in any, its THE bottleneck.
the newer the comp, the higher the performance gap between HDD and the rest.

however, now comes bandwidh vs. latency discussion, u all know that those two factors are known as speed in any digital transportation.

from the latency side SSD are already cheap. hell cheap, they crossed that line long time before there were SSDs.
some freaks already used USB sticks for powerful web applications, they never fail when u dont write. they are "green".
the limited write cycles held everyone back. in fact a storage with 100 GB is likely to fail every day when theres just 10K writes.
usb sticks? never trust it! its what we learn from real life.

a 15KRpm disk can have a latency of 3 milliseconds. Queueing Events wont make it faster, its more likely that its heads have to do bigger movements.
in the End we get 333 strikes per second. under good conditions. thats it.
an SSD has typically 0,2ms access time. This means 5000 strikes per second. modern SSD can deal up to 50 simultaneous reads. in the end u will recieve something bewtween 40.000 and 100.000, depending on size, state and R/W.
the worst value would mean a replacement of 120 (600Euro-) Disks, including controllers and electricity.
the SSD costs hm... 100 Euro. Power? 8760 hours * 2 watt = 17,5 Kwh / ~2,--
the 120 hdd * 600 Euro + ~10K for sans/controllers. Not less then 1,5K Euro p.a. for electricity. Calc urself^^

the disks of today deal great with these issues, they bring one nice new part to pur computers:
something with some properties ram and some of hard disks.
soon flash will be cheaper, mram will come.

from the speed side they are already way cheaper then comparable drive arrays.
from the storage side they are not, sure. especially those nice new drives cost up to 4 Euro per GB.
thats 40 times the price of a hdd!
they will become cheaper one day. the secret is teh chips inside.
their raise is a constant doubling in size, so one day their priceline will cross the hdds.
a hdd will always stay a mechanical masterpiece. compare a rolex to a hard drive: rolex loose.
those costs will stay more or less constant in mine expectation. metal price raises *maybe?

be sure to have 1 hdd for ur children (so u can show them what kind of storage mankind used those times).
Author:  natirips [ 02.17.12 ]
Post subject:  Re: multiboot system + Urban Terror
You just inspired me to do a little research on the local market. In my favorite shop the storage-oriented pricing (since I personally consider my 2TB to be a very tight living space but I'm not rich enough to afford more ATM) is:

mechanical SATA: 60€/TB
SSD SATA: 1080€/TB
PCI-Express* SSD: 440€/TB

*o_O I didn't know PCI-Express drives existed

I guess I'll stick to mecha drives for a while longer, especially as I personally wouldn't benefit at all from any faster OS/programs load times.

Also, wouldn't pagefile (windows) and filesystem journaling (linux) hurt SSD drives?

Edit: Maybe I should get a SSD drive for firefox config. It takes extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemly long time to exit. It gets frustrating at times. I even keep a root terminal open at all times and a script like this ready at hand:
/usr/bin/firefox-must-die wrote:
#!/bin/bash
killall -9 firefox-bin
Author:  wurst [ 02.18.12 ]
Post subject:  Re: multiboot system + Urban Terror
u tell me the price per GB is higher? ok, sry, sure.
its way better to use hard drives.
they have sata too so everything should be pretty much same exept that flash fail on writing.
the technical difficulties are too strong so better stay with hdd another 20 years.
and who needs power anyways? its just making people weak.
Author:  dmmh [ 02.19.12 ]
Post subject:  Re: multiboot system + Urban Terror
havoc wrote:
Crusher wrote:
I still don't have enough confidence to buy these SSDs disks...


good only if you tend to kick your computer a lot


you forget it's ultra fast ;-)
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