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PostPosted: 05.17.10 
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havoc wrote:
what kind of music you want to do m8?
i have lots of experience btw


cool :)

I'm kinda looking at techno/ minimal techno for now.
I'm planning on making trance and IDM as well, but I think that's raising the bar to high for a novice like me, so a four to the floor has to do for now and I like (minimal) techno.

The problem I am running into is that I am kinda stuck ate the basics. Basically there is no real good guide which tells you the secrets of the trades such as:
    what are all the different techniques commonly used?
    Where do you commonly start: with making a bass or with making the main lead and working around it and why? What is the basis for your song?
    Why a separate drum computer when I can also make bass sounds with a software synth?
    Why all the different kind of synthesizers? Wtf is the difference between a FM modulated synth and the other types?

you see my questions are more aimed at the basics of sound: I have the idea understanding those will make for producing better music in the end, even though I may "waste" time in the beginning.

For now I am just using software, on a regular computer but maybe if I get better in this I will invest in a midi keyboard, studio monitors etcetera :)

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PostPosted: 05.17.10 
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wurst wrote:
can u guys make something like a techno hymn against cheaters?

electronic music is btw an enrichment for music itself, everyone can have more then an orchestra.
i know propellerhead reason from my old flat mate some years ago.
what i didnt like in that program was the user interface (that tried to like something from metal)


thanks for the tip :)
When I know how the best begin, I will try to make something like that, the dswp -don't hack please techno song :D

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PostPosted: 05.17.10 
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PostPosted: 05.18.10 
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dmmh wrote:
    what are all the different techniques commonly used?
    Where do you commonly start: with making a bass or with making the main lead and working around it and why? What is the basis for your song?
    Why a separate drum computer when I can also make bass sounds with a software synth?
    Why all the different kind of synthesizers? Wtf is the difference between a FM modulated synth and the other types?


lets see:

your first question is kinda abstract, so dont really know what to say there.

second question: in about 99% of the music, and i mean all the music, its the melody thats the basis of the song. why? because it carries the actual musical information you want to pass. its the bare minimum, so to say.

the melody varies a lot from genre to genre, it can be extremely complicated in the works of paganini, charlie parker and indian classical music, and quite simple in the songs of australian aborigines, pygmy peoples in africa, and popmusic, to almost nonexistent in genres like hiphop and minimal, where it goes down to its rhythmic component mostly.

of course there that 1% of music, harmony based, like all kinds of ambient/atmospheric for example.

as for where to start, well, depends on you. some people look for the melody first, harmony later, others pick good sounding harmony and try to get a melody by variations and improvisation. you just start with whatever comes first to you. and since music is an art, at least partially these days, theres no real rules of how to do it. just go ahead and get creative. with time and practice, you will eventually find your legs.

heres an example. smoke a joint (or dont). go to http://images.google.com. type mountains.
heres a random image - http://nhop.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/mountains.jpg. now, if someone asks you, what soundtrack you would add to that image? try to hear it in your mind. dont force it, just pick the thought, you know, like when watching air bubbles go from the bottom to the top in water? just follow it, let it grow. when its strong enough, start your software/pick your instrument/whatever, try to give it a form and sound. pure zen, isnt it? also remember, thats only an example. you are free to do whatever you want.

on to your third question - why separate drum computer etc.
well, different genres in music have different stuff that describes them, like meta information you know, makes them all different. for example, the drum n bass beats and sounds, the techno beats and sounds, the fender strat/tele blues, the jackson/esp/ibanez metal, the old-trumpet sounding cool jazz of miles, the lo-fi sound of early cypress hill, and so on. lots of examples really.

so, as you can see from examples, one of the factors defining a genre is the sound of the music. like early cypress is a lot vinyl-based, early techno is tb909 and such based, nirvana is guitar based and so on.

thats why many people, and with reason, still use vinyls, old drum machines and samplers, old guitars and whatever. its just what gives the style its sound. and of course, methods of the actual producing of the music revolve around the tools used.

question N4 - why all the synthesizers? well, because musicians like new toys :) new ways of expressing themselves, and of course that goes way beyond synths alone. as for the difference, well, everything in a synthesizer starts with a sound wave - sine, square, triangle and so on. from there its all different ways to modify/distort/modulate/whatever the wave. and different kinds of synths use different ways to do that.

as for software, and for what you want to do, i really really really recommend reason. its fun, also its fun to learn, its easy to use, it sounds great, actually the best software synth available to the masses, its VERY versatile, it sounds great, it sounds great, and i almost forgot - its fun.

most importantly, it really gives you very fast and reliable way to transfer your idea to the real world. and thats very important, because the biggest loss of data so to say happens exactly in this process :)

propellerheads.se, the guys doing it, actually did only 2 softwares - rebirth, and reason (well and few other programs supporting them). both of them were a little revolutions in audio software.

also if you want to save yourself lots of pain and time, stay away from cubase/vst platform. they have always been crap.

i hope you find my post informative.

p.s. - a note: in general, the more limited your tools are, the more energy will go to the music itself. like, look what paganini has done with a simple violin. heres an example of rebirth i mentioned earlier - its 2 drum machines and 2 mono bass synths, still this demo song is an excellent example of how limited tools doesnt limit the actual music - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5w5jEVeUuA

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PostPosted: 05.18.10 
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havoc wrote:
second question: in about 99% of the music, and i mean all the music, its the melody thats the basis of the song. why? because it carries the actual musical information you want to pass. its the bare minimum, so to say.

the melody varies a lot from genre to genre, it can be extremely complicated in the works of paganini, charlie parker and indian classical music, and quite simple in the songs of australian aborigines, pygmy peoples in africa, and popmusic, to almost nonexistent in genres like hiphop and minimal, where it goes down to its rhythmic component mostly.

of course there that 1% of music, harmony based, like all kinds of ambient/atmospheric for example.
And there is a 0,001% "music" (called "techno" by some) that has no melody but a few drum strokes being repeated over and over all the same for hours.
And some people also consider music what I call "white noise".
;) :lol:

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PostPosted: 05.20.10 
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/callvote do teKno? :evil:

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PostPosted: 05.21.10 
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hi guys im quite new in the forum and im tryin to make music and dj with ableton live 8...
any ideas or tipps ??? i want to make like techno and dubstep style of music....
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PostPosted: 05.21.10 
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natirips wrote:
havoc wrote:
second question: in about 99% of the music, and i mean all the music, its the melody thats the basis of the song. why? because it carries the actual musical information you want to pass. its the bare minimum, so to say.

the melody varies a lot from genre to genre, it can be extremely complicated in the works of paganini, charlie parker and indian classical music, and quite simple in the songs of australian aborigines, pygmy peoples in africa, and popmusic, to almost nonexistent in genres like hiphop and minimal, where it goes down to its rhythmic component mostly.

of course there that 1% of music, harmony based, like all kinds of ambient/atmospheric for example.
And there is a 0,001% "music" (called "techno" by some) that has no melody but a few drum strokes being repeated over and over all the same for hours.
And some people also consider music what I call "white noise".
;) :lol:


bs: techno can be pretty goddamn good!

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PostPosted: 05.22.10 
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natirips wrote:
havoc wrote:
And some people also consider music what I call "white noise".
;) :lol:


:lol: well that is.....very true. I've heard some weird shit being called music.
I tried pro logic but i find it to be a bit too confusing, the process of making a simple arpeggiator is even though rewarding in the end quite frustrating for a beginner. So FL is my choice.
I believe reFX has released his most popular VTS nexus and vanguard for mac but I'm not 100% sure they work with pro logic.
Tone gladiator is one of my favs, lots of sounds and a decent arp/gate function.
You can try searching for sonic synth 2. Which has thousands of sounds and most of them are sample based so the VTS is around 5 GB's.
Also i can recommend venegeance (VEE) sound pack, it's a huge sound pack with hundreds of kick drums, snares, hats, synth shots, bass sounds and everything else you will need to create a nice beat.
If you need strings i suggest using DSK strings, it's not THE best string vst out there but it sure as hell beats every VST with those synthetic string shots.
For brass instruments i use DSK brass it sounds ok and you can combine 2 different brass instruments so t has nice depth.
Someone told me it's better to create your own sounds rather then using sounds from VST plugins, i respectfully disagree.
There is so many sounds included in plugins it has become almost impossible to create an original sound. Layering is a much better way to go imo.

Also it's good to spend some time on sites where you can create your own profile and upload your music for other to listen and review. I myself am a member of 2 of those sites.
one of them is http://www.jamendo.com which has a lot of good artists there but if you slip up and post something average these guys will trash you.
Other site i really like is reverbnation. There's over 650 000 people there. They wont trash you, people can be supportive and encourage you. Graphics interface is more eye candy then practical but once you get used to it you'll love it. There are local, national and global charts which is a great thing cause it shows your progress nicely.
This is my profile on RN so you can see how it all looks like.
http://www.reverbnation.com/#/electronicnation

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PostPosted: 05.23.10 
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thanks for the lenghty reply btw havoc :)

and thanks as well WCRayne, very usefull reply! Nexus and Vanguard are both available for OSx, I have them both installed :)

my newest soft synth:




Watch this vid @ Youtube (new Window)

:D

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